11.07.09
Breed related training
I read a letter yesterday that got me to thinking about breed related training issues. So I thought maybe I should add a link to my Youtube site, it’s on the main links page that I added but I’m going to add a separate “Töfra video channel” link as well for those who haven’t seen it yet. I have a few videos of training that people might be interested in, including a few of our reactive dog training. Unfortunately we don’t have “before videos” it would have been extremely helpful to see how the dogs were, I know it’s impossible to imagine it from seeing the “finished” outcome. Some who saw the dogs before or who helped us with “distraction dogs” can’t believe it’s the same dog and thinking back it’s hard for us to even remember those trying times when we understood why euthanasia seemed the only solution in the minds of the former owners. At times we were tempted to go that route ourselves. What we do like though is that once the inner wall of stress is broken training is so easy and lessons are remembered forever.
Silly us, we took in another reactive dog and didn’t bother to take videos either, oh well we live and learn…or maybe we don’t. LOL 
I keep reading cries for help from people in other forums about barking. Some convince them that the ISD is supposed to be a barker, it’s their job. I am happy the breeder’s are warning their puppy buyers that their dogs may bark and that is totally true but I think at the same time it can be a bit of an excuse to not worry about the genetic factor. The fact of the matter is that yes, they bark when they work but they should have a valid reason to do so. They shouldn’t be barking at every little thing they see or hear, unfortunately that is a very common problem though. That is a sign of stress, they should be calm enough in their barking that you can actually interrupt them and get their attention when you need to. Anything other than that is stress or anxiety barking and I think if you’ve gotten that far then it’s a pattern that needs to be addressed and corrected with tools that work from the inside out. Things like calming exercises, flower essences, massage (TTouch) and brain games (hiding goodies or tracking) can help the dog gain control of himself enough that coupled with training of certain key cues like targeting you can teach the dog how to calm himself in a stressful situation, it gives the dog more power over his own actions and in turn more confidence. I always like to recommend the books Click to Calm and Control Unleashed. There are quite a few Icelandic sheepdogs that are barky and in most cases it’s built on insecurity and/or over excitement especially as young dogs or puppies. I think that if the owners are unfortunate enough to get advice from traditional trainers or from people who view the barking as a normal behaviour rather than stress induced, and use the wrong methods they may end up having an anxious, reactive or dog aggressive dog instead because our breed is HIGHLY sensitive and the more sensitive they are the easier it is for them to turn reactive. Instead of fixing the problem it can get worse, building up an inner stress factor that can lead to owners giving up on the dog. I think breeders need to use the all important first 8-12 weeks to socialize the puppies and inform puppy buyers of the importance of socialization and of controlling the situation so the dog doesn’t get overly stressed, as stress builds up over time.
In my mind training is a very important thing with our breed and I will admit that there are the occasional lines that have not succumb to this problem. I remember when I first got this wonderful breed I had a German Shepherd, I was fortunate enough to find an angel of a dog and was convinced that the ISD was the perfect first dog for anyone…however there were many around me including well known breeders at the time who swore the ISD was impossible to train! I have tried to breed with my first dog in mind, I like a dog that needs little to no training or exercise but can tolerate and also enjoys training and exercise if that makes sense? A dog that is calm enough to just be my shadow whether that means living an active life or being a couch potato, in the city or on a farm, endless energy if that’s what is called for but not a burden on the owner. As with all breeders sometimes I have succeeded in getting what I want and other times not, one of the joys of breeding, it’s like a box of chocolates.
Through the years it seems the breed has continued to be interspersed with both barky and quieter lines and some lines are barky because they need more than the owner is able to give and build up stress while others are possibly made to do more than they are able to. There are many types of stress, some dogs are just plain insecure or need building of their confidence and the occasional dog may just be that way because of the training (the behaviour is self rewarding or has been rewarded by the owner without them realizing it). The last few years I have heard that some who have gotten an ISD have decided they never want another and to me that is so sad. I will admit though after taking on the problems of a reactive dog or two I can totally understand how they are feeling. On the other hand a dog as sensitive as the ISD can make the perfect pet, therapy dog, working dog if you understand his needs. From the start of our breed’s short history of pedigree breeding we have had non-barkers and excessive barkers. It is genetic as well as environmental and so needs to be kept in mind when breeding but at the same time as I say the barking itself may not be the main issue in the dogs but rather how courageous they are, how quick to calm they are, how low the threshold to stress is. In my honest opinion because our dogs are so individual in their temperaments (especially because we are trying to preserve more diversity on purpose) that it may be harder to lower the tendency solely through breeding because it can pop-up from very quiet families if the combination doesn’t fit. We can also get quiet dogs out of barky dogs and that can be because of good socialization or a luck of the draw combination of genes.
Because our dogs are prone to this problem, clicker training (and by that I mean the whole philosophy behind it not just adding a clicking device to regular training!) can be such a powerful learning experience for them and can help prevent problems later. As a trainer who has gone through every imaginable method of training including shock collars (bark collars and remote control), high pitched sounds, bark collars with citronella, spray bottles with water, cans filled with stones/coins, throwing specialized chains at the dog, choke collars, prong collars, dominance theories, you name it I’ve tried it all in the 22+ years I’ve been training dogs, I can with certainty and through my own experience say that the fall-out to those negative methods without necessarily having any influence on the behaviour itself, can ruin a dog beyond repair especially a sensitive individual. On that note, not to discourage, a clicker used the wrong way can also make a dog more excitable and that I have seen in my career. However that excitability is easily repaired and redirected to be a positive foundation to learning if the trainer does not resort to positive punishment (this is not the type of punishment used in clicker training) and teaches the dog self control. Yes clicker training is forgiving but it is my experience that when mixed with other methods it can confuse the sensitive dog to the degree of being over excitable or confused whereas the not so sensitive dog might just shut-down. There are a few ways to confuse a dog with the clicker. Possibly trainers misuse the marker (click no matter what the dog is doing good or bad), use the marker continually even after a behaviour is learned, use the marker as an attention getter or instead of a reward rather than to give information, expect too much from the dog instead of rewarding small successes and building on them, or the dog gets away with “rewarding itself” for bad behaviour by the owner/trainer forgetting to control the environment as a part of the dog’s every day life lessons.
Sadly I have heard comments during the years like clicker training is useless and those trainers will either never try one or try one a couple times incorrectly and go back to harsher methods of training because it’s all the dog “understands” in their mind. Those trainers fail to see the fall-out as a negative and seem to enjoy the relationship of the dog being quiet, aloof, emotionally closed and see it as a dog they control (their understanding of obedience). Some just get into a habit that’s hard to break and they believe they are positive trainers as long as praise or a click comes after a reprimand. There are those who find the clicker great for teaching tricks but can’t understand why their dogs shut down in normal training sessions when receiving reprimands or not getting enough info through the marker, they lump together behaviours and ask for too much or add factors like physically helping the dog and then clicking him, meaning the dog will always expect that help and doesn’t learn to do the behaviour on his own. The help becomes part of the cue. The fault is not in the principles of clicker training or the clicker itself but in the trainer’s understanding of them.
I know I have strong opinions at times both in terms of breeding in general, the Icelandic sheepdog and training (probably on most things because I inherited this fault ) and so I want to say that these are of course my own opinions and may not be the same as Rúnar’s opinions of training given he was lucky enough to start out as a clicker trainer without the baggage of traditional training on his back. I hope that on most things we are on the same page and I believe so. As I say I am a long time trainer (learned from my mistakes), spent years just “using a clicker”, moved over to being a cross-over trainer until I finally took the step and embraced clicker training in it’s true form about 7 years ago although I must admit that in terms of an underlying “clicker mentality” for life in general I have a long way to go to transform my negativity and I’m working on that. Could use a little help from my friends on that one. Feel free to “click” any correct behaviour and ignore the rest! Hehehe
With all that in mind I think what this rant was about is that everyone starts somewhere. I think that every step towards the true art of using the principles of clicker training is a step in the right direction. Take advice about clicker training and try it FIRST before you try methods or suggestions that involve any kind of punishment to your dog. It’s all about your relationship and our breed is one that cries for an understanding owner who respects it’s right to be an expressive soul, although that doesn’t mean that expression has to be through barking and you will find out what I mean by that if you give clicker training a chance. It is my hope that I can convince and teach people faster than I learned myself of the benefits of not sitting on the fence or mixing other methods with it. You may confuse your dog and not get the results you could but don’t worry if you make mistakes in the beginning, everyone does just know that mistakes made with a clicker are far less potent and forgiving and don’t leave behind the baggage in the dog’s mind as punishment based training does. So go for it, check it out…try it and look at it with your mind wide open and I promise that you and even more importantly your DOG will be thankful you did! And by all means look for a “clicker trainer” (not just a trainer using clickers along with other methods) because that is so much easier to find today. I wish it was when I started out so many years ago. There are great things going on in ALL the areas of dog training, including sports and working trials, clicker trainers love to help owners understand their dogs and gain “control” over every day problems as well as more serious ones which are more often than not not a fault of the dog but due to “fall-out” of other methods. If you get the chance to consult with a Karen Pryor Certified Training Partner or school near you that’s where you will get the knowledge needed to start out right.
Holly K. said,
November 7, 2009 at 13:09
Great comments on clicker training. And on the “barky” dogs. If you know of lines that are calmer I would be very interested to know what they are in your opinion. I think age and maturity has alot to do with it. But it is impossible to know whether it was all the time and training, or age, when they start to be calmer. My two dogs are definitely not the calmer types. However, I wouldn’t want a different breed, and I have to say they are amazingly smart and responsive and so much fun to train. My Sammy is, I would say, the more reactive of the two — or the slower to mature of the two. However, he is also more driven to figure out what I want, in training. When I say training I mostly mean free-shaping sessions. He is easily frustrated (to bark) if he can’t figure out what you want, but he never gives up and keeps offering behaviors, with energy and intensity. Truffle will tend to lie down and wait if she can’t “get it” quickly. She responds better to training with a little luring to show her what is wanted, then using the clicker to mark, then fading luring and clicker. Or capturing the behavior, which is how I taught her to bow. I tried to teach Sam to bow using a technique I saw on youtube with a great dane, and he didn’t really get it, but I began to notice more when he did it naturally (such as right when we get up, when I’m in my nightgown and don’t have any treats on me.) So now I am capturing, and this morning he definitely did it several times in a row to get a treat, so I think he is starting to realize what he is doing. One of my problems is that I get excited about teaching one thing, and then get sidetracked onto another, and I get sort of a scattershot approach. But they learn anyway, that’s the amazing thing. Even with all the goofs I make, they pick it all up over time. Another thing I’m doing with them now is getting them to run out, away from me, and circle an object (like a post, or a trashcan) and return. Gail showed it to us at the specialty in the agility workshop. Sam is great, he rounds that post and charges back to me. Truf is less energetic about it. I like that it’s a way of teaching them some distance work. With Rally, the emphasis is on staying very close. Except for the jump, I think, that is at a higher level than we are. I am taking Truffle to a herding clinic at the end of the month, and I think they give us some distance exercises we can practice at home.
I like the blog. You are so good about writing. I have a blog but I haven’t put anything on it for months!
Holly
greenstone said,
November 8, 2009 at 14:46
Hi Monika
Enjoyed the rant
It was as always well written and I feel the need to admit to being quilty of being a cross over trainer, I used the clicker for some things, and for training new things but have and at least for the time being continue to have my three strikes, your out rule on the farm, I am much more willing to work it in softer baby steps in other areas but when it puts my livestock in danger, I demand control, they can’t think their way though it, they have to listen to that call off or go back on the long lead.
Now that I have admitted that am a fence sitter, I wanted to comment on the meat of the letter for me, and that is that some dogs can be much less reactive and their appear to train themselves and I have to say that your girls did pass it on, Now, I did take all these dogs to puppy class and up to finished level one of obdeance (so one level above basic companionship, but Tofra Tobba was so easy to train, but Tofra Dalla is by far the most amazing ISD I ever brought in to train, and many of her offspring that I have held back, have turned out to be following in her footsteps, Ada is the without a doubt a dream girl to work with, smart, willing, able, and works when you want her to, great herding dog, good agility dog, and yet rare if ever barks, in house, out of house, or working, the only time you see her bark is when required with the sheep.
On the related family side is Runa (who Sharon did an amazing job with as a puppy) and who naturally is all of the above the same as dalla but with higher barking theshold, she has a higher prey drive in many ways and does give voice more when working in all ways, Never barks for no reason but honestly, its the same cat outside to close to the house or one of her favorites, yes, it is the turkeys, they are out in order to free range LOL
Then on other hand you have Folda, smart, highly trainable, and amazing with peaple, earned her CGN at just six months, has done conformation, herding and is a therapy dog but when it comes to barking, will bark just to hear her own voice, and when not given something to do, is most likely to turn to barking. She is interesting in the fact that when provided with a goal or training she is quiet, but chooses to bark, I have found that exercise does not make a difference in her, tired or not, its just her, and she does pass it on to her puppies, just as Dalla and Ada can pass on their easy unruffled calm temperment.
Given that I have the temperment test on the litters for so many years now, I can spot the quiet easy ones at this point and have to admit that its what I keep back at this time, I would not choose to raise a reactive dog, but then came Odinn, which to be fair, given his lines, you would not expect him to be reactive and in a way he is not, up to a point, he is Folda in a male form, but with one big difference.. Folda was taught from a young age to settle and can do so.. she can be sent to her Crate or matt or bed and will calm herself down and will soon be sleeping or chewing a toy upside down on her back.. Odinn lacked this training when he came to me, but to be fair, he is now learning that to crate is to time out and relax, and he is getting better and better at it, and is even now choosing to sleep or relax in his crate or in the case of my mom’s visit, when the house was really busy, he self crated himself (which I was so proud of, and of course got a yes, an a chewy)
So ending on a high note in regards to seeing improvement in our Reactive dogs training.. have a good one
Val
Laura F. said,
November 8, 2009 at 16:43
Hi Monika, lots of info in this post and it could have a link on your article page. Breed temperament and training is such a complex and fascinating subject. It’s something I ponder regularly especially as I see Soley’s offspring grow up and develop their own unique characters.
I did have one thought, in regards to your training profession, perhaps you and Rúnar could offer private training sessions? This is actually a big part of the business of the trainers I know, not as a substitute for group classes, but to help owners establish good behaviours in the home and neighbourhood. I think it would promote the clicker training message – when people have success with private training they tend to let their friends know about it
Private training usually starts with a 90 minute session and then follow ups are every week or two weeks as needed.